She remarkably still commands the aristocratic presence she
has been known for, since her immersion decades ago into the
upper crust of the Nigerian society, both as the first female
commissioner in the old Western State and first female Senior
Advocate of Nigeria (SAN). She spoke with YINKA FABOWALE
and OLUSEYE OJO in Ibadan.
Ever gorgeously attired, with sweet, inimitable diction and
Oxfordian accent that lull you into thinking you were probably
on the streets of England, she received The Sun team that
had, a few minutes before, been ushered into one of the big
living rooms in her Red Bricks residence on plot 2, Aringindi
Street, Bodija, the home of the Noveauriche in Ibadan, the Oyo
State capital.
Yet, Chief (Mrs.) Folake Solanke (SAN), showed her palpable
humility and simplicity to the guests, with her personable
warmth and charm. A great and engaging conversationalist,
she is as witty, friendly as she is sharp enough to put you on
the spot on issues.
Also, at over 80 years of age, the octogenarian legal luminary
who is being honoured today Saturday, January 17, 2015, with
the Lifetime Achievement Award by The Sun Publishing
Limited, along with other men and women of distinction at Eko
Hotel Suites and Towers, Victoria Island, Lagos, still radiates
an uncanny agility and youthfulness.
The General Counsel of the newspaper company, Mr. Obinna
Kalu, and Assistant Editor/ Head, South-West Bureau, Mr.
Yinka Fabowale, were in Ibadan to present the letter of
notification on the award to Solanke, the first non-White ever
to be International President of Zonta International, on
Tuesday, January 13, 2015, after several attempts to reach her
directly.
When she took her seat, a mild drama ensued. “My legal
executive for 40 years receives my correspondence. So, I could
not understand why The Sun newspapers insisted on my
receiving the letter for photographs to be taken. Why?”,
Solanke querried.
Kalu responded, explaining that it was the tradition of The Sun
Publishing Limited to formally present notification letters to its
awardees, but the old lawyer cut in good humouredly: “But I
am not part of your tradition!” To this Kalu further explained
that the presentation of notification letters was done as an
awareness campaign build-up to the official presentation of
the awards.
But, Solanke pressed her point: “A month ago, a friend of mine
telephoned to congratulate me. I said: ‘for what?’ She said
The Sun newspapers has given me an award. So, I told her I
knew nothing about it. She was surprised. I wanted to write to
protest why you did not tell me that I would be given an
award that I just saw in the newspaper. This meeting
(presentation of notification letter) should have preceded the
publication of the names of awardees)”, she reasoned.
To this cross-examination, Mr. Fabowale, volunteered: “The
Board of Editors of the company at the end of every year, sits
and looks at the society to see who and who had made
significant contributions in various spheres. It is after that
they write out the letters and simultaneously announce the
picks of the corporate body. Actually Ma,the letter has been
ready since we announced the awards. But, The Sun Award is
not a conventional award. It is not the caricature we now
have all over the place whereby you give a person an award
and you attach a budget to it. The Sun Award is basically on
merit. So, we don’t involve our honourees until we have made
the decision and we let the nation and the whole world know
through our newspaper and our online platform”.
An apparently satisfied Solanke, after the explanations, then
“discharged and acquitted her young visitors with a pleasant:
“I have accepted the award”.
Solanke, who read the notification letter before she responded,
commended the quality of the letter, saying: “I enjoyed the
prose. It’s well written. I also thank you for identifying
Nigerians for their contributions. There is so much that is
going on in Nigeria. Personally, when you can identify some
people to be recognised and decorated, it gives hope that the
best is yet to come in Nigeria.
“It is an example that it is important for the younger ones
that in the midst of it all, we still have very credible citizens.
So, I thank you for including me in the number of those to be
really recognised and decorated.”
Solanke then fielded questions on sundry issues. Excerpts:
We still have judges who abide by their oaths of office
The legal profession is extremely important for any country
because without law and order, there will be anarchy, there
will be confusion. That is why it is extremely important that
the judiciary should try and reverse the very negative
perception of people about judiciary because of the level of
improprieties that we know is incumbent on leaders of this
country. The level is too high. Judges must be above board.
They must demonstrate to the society what is best in all that
we do. The judiciary must not let the country down. So, I am
hoping that we will be able to follow the example of the
recently retired first female Chief Justice of Nigeria, who tried
to really sanitise the judiciary and to punish those who were
found guilty.
We still have some judges who abide by their oath of office
and render justice without fear or favour, so that the public do
not dismiss the difference between the good and the not so
good. They just lump all judges together that the judiciary is
corrupt. But we still have very good judges who do not belong
to the group of those who let us down. Whenever you write
about judges, please remember that distinction because it is
not fair that you should malign those who are good along with
those who are not. It is very important that a distinction be
made.
I am disappointed with the level of performance of some new
lawyers
Both the bar and the bench constitute the legal system in this
country. Without the bar, the judges cannot perform. Without
the judges, the lawyer cannot perform. In any case, you
cannot become a judge without being a lawyer. So, we need
to look at what is going on among our own colleagues and
the areas that we also should attend to because some of
those who try to corrupt judges go through lawyers. Lawyers
too must really stand up. They also take an oath, especially
Senior Advocates of Nigeria, to make sure that we abide by
the ethics and tradition of our profession, so that we can
really help this country to come back to the path of
righteousness, because there is a lot of evil in Nigeria. So, we
need to be back to the path of rectitude and to be good and
true. We want the rule of the law. Then, we need to look into
the training of lawyers also. I am very sorry to say that
sometime I am very disappointed with the level of
performance of some new lawyers. So, we need to really try to
make sure that those who come into the profession possess
the qualities that we need to make sure that our legal system
is one of the best in the world. As for the English Language,
that is not a problem only for the lawyers. I commended you
when I read your letter (of notification of award). Some of the
statements made by some lawyers, I actually wondered
whether they actually read any English before becoming a
lawyer. But poor English is not a monopoly of lawyers. We
have problem with English Language because whether we like
it or not, we cannot deny our history. We are a colony and
English Language is a language of the court and therefore you
just have to be good at it. Some of the older lawyers and
judges who have passed away left a legacy of absolutely
impeccable English Language in their judgments and in their
statements. We need to improve the qualities of those who
come into the profession.
We must also improve the quality of our schools. Some
teachers cannot even speak good English Language and they
are supposed to be teachers. So, we have a problem with
that.
Journalism is not where it used to be
Journalism is an extremely important profession and you have
a duty in the constitution to make sure that things go right.
Section 22 of the Constitution gives the duties and obligations
of the mass media that you must let the people know what is
going on and you are doing your best. But sometimes, one
gets the impression that the orientation of some of the
newspapers… one wonders what is going on behind the scene,
if you cannot understand their stand in relation to certain
issues. In journalism profession too, you have to be very
careful of those who come to the profession so that you will
ensure that the training is adequate for the practice of
journalism. When I read newspapers, sometimes the editing is
not as thorough as one would expect. You need to take care
of that.
Beating of judge in Ekiti State is extremely dangerous for
Nigeria
What happened in Ekiti, when I read about it, it just sounded
as though one was having a terrible nightmare. If a judge
could be attacked and his clothing torn and the record of the
chief judge could … I have never heard of such calamity. If you
do not respect judges, that is the end of the society.
Unfortunately, nothing has been done about it to really find out
who and who were responsible because evildoing must be
punished. If you don’t punish evildoing, it will continue.
When the first female Chief Justice of Nigeria was retiring in
November, 2014, as the first female Senior Advocate of
Nigeria, I was asked to come and make a speech in the
Supreme Court. I spoke about this. I invited the Inspector
General of Police to go and read the constitution and also
have the Police Acts, it would have been good to investigate
crimes and to make sure that those involved are punished. As
at now, I have no information that anything has been done
that has to do about what happened in Ekiti State. It should
not be repeated anywhere. I hope that those who are
responsible will be taken through a legal process. If they just
do that and get away with it, it is extremely dangerous for this
country. evildoing, it will continue. When the
Call for the scrapping of the award of the prestigious SAN
title?
First of all, we must always try to promote excellence in every
field of endeavour. When I became a Senior Advocate of
Nigeria in 1981 – the first female, there was no question of
lobbying or really trying to affect the process unduly. It was
purely on merit. It has helped younger lawyers to know that if
they do well in the profession, there is this elevation that they
can look up to in years to come.
So, I very vehemently disagree with those who say it should
be scrapped. There are problems, no doubt about the award
now and allegation of impropriety and corruption. I know that.
But then, what we need to do is to find a way of eliminating
the improprieties. You don’t throw away the baby with the
bath water. The immediate past Chief Justice of Nigeria,
Justice Aloma Mariam Mukhtar, tried to review the criteria.
Now, instead of being able to apply in 10 years, I think it has
been raised to 20 years. Like all things in Nigeria, it always
starts on a very high plane and then gradually, the standard is
eroded and becomes something that is not exactly what it
was envisaged to be at the very beginning. So, I accept that
we need to make sure that there is a lot of transparency and
integrity in the choice of those who are to be elevated to the
rank of Senior Advocate of Nigeria, but certainly not to scrap
it.
The judiciary as aiding and abetting corruption in Nigeria,
especially through plea bargaining.
It never was part of our legal system before. But in the last
few years, it was surreptitiously sneaked into the process. I
know now for sure that Lagos State, for instance, in its civil
procedure rules has a provision for it. And some other states
have also followed that example. But I have never agreed with
it, because it doesn’t bring out the justice of the case and it
is also available for those who can engage very important
lawyers to make sure that they can go through with the plea
bargaining. It is not something a poor person can really take
advantage of. It is not right that you should have a process,
which tilts towards some people and against some people. So,
I have never liked it. I know they use it in America, but they
have a lot of regulation by which they make sure that justice
is not compromised. So, for me I do not like it and I was quite
upset when it was included in the rules. But then, the rules are
there now. We just have to make sure that it is not corrupted
because if you stole billions and you are asked to pay
something. I think it defeats justice and I do not agree with it.
In the early part of your life in England, you read
Mathematics and Education. What informed your first choice
of profession and the switch to the legal profession?
Pure Mathematics was one of the subjects that I took when I
was getting my first degree. After obtaining my Diploma in
Education, I taught Latin and Mathematics in two public
schools in England for three years and also in Nigeria for two
years at Yejide Girls’ Grammar School, Ibadan…Then, I had to
give evidence in a particular case and I asked the counsel,
who was the prosecuting counsel, Victor Durand in England. I
asked him the meaning of hearsay evidence. He tried to
explain but not being a lawyer then, I didn’t quite get the
reason hearsay was not allowed for certain questions. So, I
wanted to find out.
When I had the opportunity then, I decided that I would read
law to find out the law against hearsay. Of course, I read the
whole of bar examinations and all that. When I started to
practise, I found a very strong parallel between the subject of
geometry, which I liked very much and law. In geometry, you
are given certain data and from the data, you work out the
geometrical problems. When I entered the legal profession, I
was very fascinated because you are given legal principles,
the laws and then you have to use those principles to resolve
legal problems. It was exactly as though I was resolving
geometrical problems from giving data and then from giving
laws. So, I was very fascinated by that. Another similarity is
the clarity that Mathematics gives you. Anybody who studied
law, there is a lot of clarity there, even though we may
disagree as to the interpretation. But the law is always there
and it is something that you have in Mathematics.
Pupillage and self-practice by young lawyers
There was a time the law was introduced that you must go
and have tutelage before you can practise on your own for
certain period. People went to court and said it was
unconstitutional; you are not expected to do that. So, we
reverted. Now, from the law school, you can just set up a law
office and that is dangerous. It is a calamity for anybody to
step out of the law school and start practice. I always tell
them: ‘Your certificates in the university and in the law school
are passports to knowledge. When it comes to the practice,
you will acquire legal knowledge in the courtroom, very
different from the theories that you learned in the university
and the law school. So, it is important to go and learn from
the good seniors by working with them in chambers for about
two, three and four years, for you to stabilise and know how
to handle court cases. It is dangerous and it can ruin a legal
practice, because you would just commit such outrageous
error that doesn’t uplift your name in the profession. So, I am
very much against not having tutelage. Those who are clever
know that they should have it. Sometimes, they would
complain they are not well paid and all that. But that happens
in all professions. Any new lawyer, who has been called to the
bar, should find a good law office to start with, not just plunge
into legal practice without knowing what it’s all about. It is a
different ballgame in the court and you must learn it before
you can practise.
Professional dress sense?
I can say without any hesitation that by the grace of God, the
lawyers in Ibadan follow my example, because if I see them in
a situation that I do not agree with what they are wearing, I
call them aside and I will tell them quietly what to do – black
and white. The white should be white, not brown. So, I am
happy that people do follow my examples in that regard. And
they tell one another if they are coming to see me to dress
very well. They know that. In any event, even within or without
profession, appearance is of great significance. When you
enter a room, it doesn’t matter how clever or brilliant you are,
before you open your mouth, people have either downgraded
you or upgraded you because of your appearance. That is why
I always preach and I will continue to preach that they must
make sure their appearance is impeccable. I love to see
lawyers well-dressed in court in their black and white. The
profession says dark. But I don’t use the word dark colour. I
use black because somebody may come in green or brown and
say it’s dark. So, I never use the word dark. It is black and
white. They know and even in the world of fashion, black and
white are the most important colours.
Sense of public service now and in the past
There was a deputy governor, who had disagreement with the
governor. I read in the newspaper the letter that, that deputy
governor wrote to the governor because of the disputation
between them. I was flabbergasted that when they were to go
for election in 2011, he said the governor promised him that
he would come and enjoy and that he has not be enjoying.
Then, he narrated his complaints about what the governor has
done or has not done to make him enjoy. I said: “This is a
letter of complaints to his governor. Was that the only thing
that took him to become a deputy governor?’ That shows you
that some of the leaders go there to enjoy or to chop as they
say and not to serve. So, that is another thing that Nigeria
has to work on, that our leaders should go there to serve and
not to enjoy. I was quite surprised that, that deputy governor
could put it in a letter and the letter was published in the
newspaper.
You once led Zonta International, what was your experience
leading that prestigious club?
In 1970, I was in my law chambers and there was a lady in
her 70s from Canada. My legal executive, who has been with
me for 47 or 48 years, came into my office and said there was
an old lady from Canada waiting to see me. We respect age. I
couldn’t keep her waiting for me although there was no
appointment. So, I told him to bring her in and she came with
a Nigerian lady. So, she told me about Zonta and her
commitment to the advancement of women. The qualifications
to become members, she said, you have to be in executive
position in business or the professions and she told me how
they tried to influence the development of women all over the
world. Anyway, I was fascinated by the philosophy of Zonta.
So, I became a member. We have what we call districts,
conferences in districts. Every two years, we have a huge
convention. So, I was rising in the profession and I became
the first non-White Vice International President. That
happened in Ontario in Canada in 1986.
Those who were fond of me wanted me to go for president-
elect. Once you have become the president-elect, you don’t
need any other election before you become the International
President. So, I contested in 1988 in Helsinki, I lost to an
Australian. I contested in 1990 in Dallas, Texas, I lost to a
lady from Switzerland. Eventually in 1992 in Hong Kong, I
won.
But those six years from 86 to 92, it was Zonta politics that
they were not ready for a Black President. But there were
people, who were strongly in support of me and eventually it
happened. Having won, everybody, we treated them equally. I
felt the weight of representing the Black race in that position.
In all the other international organisations- in Rotary, Lions
they have never had Black person as International President.
So, I felt the huge weight of my representation of the Black
race, not only in Nigeria, but all over the world that I should
do well, so that it doesn’t confirm what they think we are that
we are not up to their own standard. I have a very good friend
in Sweden. She is a judge. She has been to Nigeria several
times. She stays in my house. I have also been to Sweden a
number of years, staying with her in her own home. I confided
in her and she told me: “Folake, you cannot carry that burden.
It is too heavy for you and your shoulders. You must just do
the best you can. So, don’t worry about the representation. Do
your best”.
It just lifted that burden off my shoulders because she is
Swedish and she could understand what I was going through.
So, I just did my best and even today at all our conventions, I
am so highly regarded. I am not boasting, but anytime I go to
any convention, I am surrounded by those who want to do one
thing or the other. Even now, I am in correspondence with a
number of them.
Achievements of the tenure for women globally?
We were part of the global crusade to elevate the standard of
women. When I was the International President, I led the
international delegation of Zonta to Beijing, where we
presented papers. Then, we had in the decisions, 12 items that
everybody was going to work on. It came to Nigeria and
people and international organisations have been working on
it.
The orientation is there that women should be respected and
should be included in the development process.
Assessing the fate of women and their condition in Nigeria
now
At least, we have more women professionals. We have them in
business. But what I read in the newspaper about violence
against women, we still have a long way to go. The
orientation should start right at the beginning, in the homes.
The parents should let their boys know that both boys and
girls are of equal value. We should take it from there. All this
trafficking of women is a global scourge and you must
continue to talk about it in the newspapers, to condemn it.
Look at the Chibok girls. Look at the 10-year-old that they
said they strapped explosives on only last Sunday. I don’t
want them to strap any child with any explosives. But the fact
that they used a girl means that they don’t regard the life of a
girl as much as that of a boy. We still have a long way to go.
What has law given to you?
The practice of law has given me so much joy and also the
respect and the affection and the goodwill that I enjoy among
lawyers. I cannot begin to talk about it. Anywhere I go, I am
surrounded by lawyers; they want to talk to me, they want to
hear from me. It is something that I cannot quantify. It is
something that touches my soul.
I went to the Supreme Court on November 20, 2014 to give
my speech, when I finished, there was a spontaneous standing
ovation in the Supreme Court and we are not even expected to
clap in court. But people reacted spontaneously. In fact, there
was this spontaneous ovation, even the Chief Justice herself
said: ‘That’s the woman for you’. That also raised another
uproar.
So, I cannot quantify it. When some lawyers see me, they
would say they thought I was very huge and I would say this
is all that I am. What has it given me? It has given me so
much joy and so much pleasure. It is not an easy profession
to practise. But if you do it diligently with a lot of industry and
research, it is a very wonderful profession. For me, it is the
best profession in the world. I will forever cherish the way my
profession reacts towards me. I was surrounded in the
Supreme Court, photographs here and there; people asking for
my telephone number. So, I react very positively but it is
something that I treasure and I cherish.
At over 80 years, you still look healthy, youthful and elegant,
what are the secrets?
Well, it is God’s grace, exercise and decent diet. I go to
parties and I see ladies with heaps of food on their plates!
They finish that. In the next hour or two, they bring another
thing and… If you eat like that, there is no way you won’t
have a problem later on. So, it is God’s grace and maybe
DNA. Also, do everything in moderation.
