D eputy Chairman of the Northern Elders
Forum, NEF, Dr. Paul Unongo has warned
that there would be chaos in Nigeria in
2015.
“For the sake of Nigeria and those of you
who publish correctly, you need to advise
the people who are running Jonathan that
in the interest of Nigeria, they should
guarantee us. When we vote them out
they shouldn’t try to remain in power.
They will overheat the system”, Unongo, a
People’s Democratic Party, PDP, chieftain
from Benue State warned, adding: “
Everybody is behaving as if the world
would come to an end if Jonathan is not
President, it is much more likely that
Nigeria’s world would come to an end if
Jonathan is elected President because he
has demonstrated no capacity to run this
country.
“Jonathan has been hijacked by people
telling him that they own the oil wells in
Nigeria. As a leader, he has shown no
qualities that would warrant his insistence
to become a leader for another four years
because another four years of what we
have in Nigeria today will break up this
nation or will lead, at my old age, having
read history, to conflicts similar to the
Biafran conflict. And it will be senseless.
It is simple. Let’s have free and fair
elections,” the former minister said.
He described President Goodluck
Jonathan as an incompetent leader who
lacks the capacity to run the affairs of
Nigeria and warned the press to stop
trivializing such incompetence. “This
young man is just not competent. You
people want this young man to push us
into war to start killing ourselves again.
People don’t know the seriousness of the
game these young men are playing with
Nigeria. On the indices of performance,
can we say Jonathan can continue?,” he
asked.
In this interview, the ex-minister took a
long look at the match of the Nigerian
nation state from inception till date and
concluded that Nigeria has become more
primitive than any other primitive country
in the world. He blamed the elite for the
slide into primitiveness and declared that
Nigeria is now “a dead, sleep walking
nation”.
He also spoke of what he described as the
theology of the Major Gideon Orkar coup
that was to excise some parts of the North
from Nigeria, among other national
issues.
Excerpts:
A lot of things have happened in this
country. Some would say Nigeria is
making progress; but how would you
assess the present state of the nation?
I would like to say I remember you. You in
terviewed me many years back and you
published me correctly. I am very happy
to talk to you about Nigeria which is my
constituency. It’s the only place I hang
on. It’s the only hope I have in this world
and I don’t want to leave for any other
place. I am 79 years old now. So I love
this country. It’s the only country I have.
So, I promise you as I promised you then
that I will tell you the truth as I feel it, as I
see it. It depends on how you define the
word progress. Nigeria has made
progress as it has more people registered.
We are about 175 million human beings
now, from about 30 million when we
started. That is progress. Nigeria didn’t
have as many buildings as we have
today. We have huge fantastic structures.
If you look at that, you will think this
country has really developed. We have
gone through some kinds of
democratisation from colonialism where
we owed allegiance to the crown in
Britain, the UK. Today, we can pretend
that we are an independent state. Thanks
to Chief Obafemi Awolowo, Rt. Hon. Dr.
Nnamdi Azikiwe, and the Sardauna of
Sokoto. They bequeathed to us a nation
state that we confused. Nation state is a
political statement and it is a political,
scientific statement that defined what we
are supposed to be-a multi-ethnic, multi-
national country that respected the
idiosyncracies of the various components
that make the Republic of Nigeria as we
became known. And the founding fathers
were very clear. Chief Awolowo
articulated this in terms of his federalism.
And it was very clear that this is what was
intended for this country. Within that
context, yes, Nigeria is no longer a
colonial country. We messed ourselves up.
We got into a funny civil war that cost us
two million men. At the end of it, we
reconciled beyond anybody’s wildest
imagination. No country has gone into
civil war and reconciled the way Nigeria
did in the shortest time possible. For it to
make Rt. Hon. Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe contest
the presidency of the Federal Republic of
Nigeria in 1979, just eight years after the
war, I think Nigeria is great. He was Igbo.
And the heart of Biafra was Igbo. So,
there are so many good things about
Nigeria. In those days, we talked about
the potentials, the economic development
of Nigeria, structurally. We may not have
liked it, but there are some elements of
manufacturing without electricity. There
are elements of a few things we used to
import that are now done in Nigeria. So,
you can say even economically, all the
things impact on the people and the well
being of the people. Nigeria has done well.
But in Africa and in developing countries,
like India, Malaysia and Singapore,
development in terms of your question,
started at the same time with these
countries. India became a nation state
from Britain in 1947. Pakistan was born
in 1947. Today, India is one of the most
technologically advanced nation states. It
has nuclear power. It has the Atomic
Bomb, so does Pakistan. They were all
colonies. They have their own problems,
but they manufacture everything they
need, including aircraft put together
during the era of the Nehrus of this world.
If you go to Malaysia now, we started the
same time with them, Ceylon and the rest
of them. In fact, Singapore came here and
imported our palm fruits and today, they
are technologically more advanced than
us. They have settled. They are now
developed to the extent that we go to them
and import technology into Nigeria. What
has happened to Nigeria? I think when
Nigerians talks about development,
without mincing words, they ought to talk
about economics. When I finished
secondary school, there was no university
in Northern Nigeria. We went to the
“highest institution” then. It was then
called Nigerian College of Arts, Science
and Technology located in Zaria. It
became later, by the wisdom of Sir
Ahmadu Bello, the Ahmadu Bello
University. That was the highest
institution. I was the first Middle Belter to
teach anywhere in the university. I also
taught at the University of Lagos where I
founded the Department of Psychology
with a few friends and I was the Head.
They couldn’t believe I was from the
North and I was. So, they said I was a
crazy man. Today from my part of Nigeria
which is the Middle Belt, that is within
northern region, I think there are
hundreds of thousands of graduates. So,
if you want to talk about progress and
numbers in education, Nigeria has done it.
If you want to talk about more
manufactured goods that we never used
to have, that we imported from Britain,
Nigeria has done it. So, I believe that your
question is located to Nigeria as a nation.
It is the political life of Nigeria where I do
not believe we have done much. I believe
we have messed this country up, we the
educated elite. And anywhere in the world,
it is the educated elite that determine and
decide the direction of the nation state. In
the time of the Awolowos, it was also the
elite. Even during the military regimes, the
elite military officers that determined the
fate of Nigeria, resolved we should fight a
civil war and we fought a civil war behind
them. In fact, Gowon was just 29. Ojukwu
was 30+, about 32. They were the young
elite. So, it was not a matter of youth. It is
an attitude that has destroyed this country
and this attitude has made me so sad
that it has come out more emphatically
under the present administration which is
the attitude of absolute insensitivity. To
real issues, to human beings, to issues of
development, to issues that are critical,
we take them seem as if nothing is
happening. Within
that context, Nigeria has become more
primitive than any other primitive country
I have seen in the world. In fact, it has
become so bad that one wonders and ask
questions at my level, at my age. When I
have to reflect, sometimes I wonder, were
we right? Did we know what we were
doing when we were fighting the
whiteman? When we were fighting the
soldiers? When we got beaten up and got
sent to jail. The whiteman thought we
were inferior to him, the Ziks, Awos and
Sardaunas of Nigeria answered the call.
We were like the second eleven, the
youths in school rallied around them and
we had patriotism. The only thing I have
seen in Nigeria today is impunity. There is
also insensitivity, lack of care. We don’t
believe we owe any human being anything
for being Nigerian. There is nothing in this
country that stimulates somebody’s trust
in the nation state to warrant him to say I
will sacrifice my life.
My daughter has just come from youth
service which I helped in establishing. She
went to Zamfara. Now, I am saying why
should I allow my daughter to go to
Zamfara? For this Nigeria that I see that
doesn’t think about her? That doesn’t
plan for her; that is insensitive, where
small girls like her are abducted? We
laugh, we throw parties, we dance at
political party rallies and we are the
leaders of Nigeria? A ragtag army like
Boko Haram had come here before.
Others were in charge. They dealt with it.
Now, this thing is laying siege to the
greatest African nation state on earth, the
greatest nation with the largest number of
black human beings and geniuses. And
our ingenuity was revealed during our
civil war, if nothing else. The ingenuity
that was revealed during the civil war on
the side of Biafra was staggering; on the
side of Nigeria it was also staggering
among the Federalists. This country went
and organized Congo when there was
total chaos there.
This country went and fought, physically
against Charles Taylor and saved Sierra
Leone. This country even during
Obasanjo’s regime, saved Equatorial
Guinea which couldn’t do anything about
a coup. This same Nigerian Army made
Liberia a country. This Army has been so
bastardized that it cannot face a ragtag
army that say they are religious
extremists. And they are laying claim to
Nigerian territory and the response we
have is that I must be President forever.
We must dance Owambe.
So what do you think is the problem?
I think Nigeria has not developed. I think
we have gone backwards. And this is the
heart, this is the nucleus, this is where the
life of the nation state is. Nigeria, to me, is
a dead, sleep walking nation. It is as if
somebody put opium on the rest of us. We
are watching this destruction unfolding
and nobody talks. It is as if we have been
hypnotized. And when you try to talk,
everybody pounces on you. You hate the
President. Oh you are a Muslim. Oh you
don’t like Christians to be President. I am
just answering the first part of your
question. You asked my opinion about
how developed Nigeria is and I am telling
you that Nigeria has gone nowhere.
Nigeria has matched backwards. We are
now tribalists. You are an Ijaw man. It is
our oil. I don’t drink oil and I don’t give a
damn. Oil has brought disaster to Nigeria.
Nigeria was a great country when we
were selling our beniseed, hides and skin,
groundnuts and developing Nigeria. To
day, there is so much money, there is so
much stealing, there is so much
devastation and there is so much
insensitivity in the system. Nigerians that
loved themselves so much don’t exist.
What kind of society is that?
How did we get to where we are now?
We got to this stage because one,
Nigerians developed a thick skin and
became insensitive themselves. And then
there is this national effort by people who
usurped power. First, the military usurped
power and they tried to force everybody to
see things their way. If you didn’t, they
killed you or locked you up. Some of us
were lucky. We were locked up, but God
intervened and we were not killed. We got
close to being killed when we were falsely
accused of doing a coup. How can a
civilian do a coup during a military
regime? But it happened because nobody
spoke. I don’t know when Nigerians
became such cowards. And I don’t know
when Nigerians became people that
depended on government to get food.
Everybody is saying no, no ,no, you can’t
talk. If you talk, you won’t eat. My child is
going to school, I can’t pay school fees.
When did this happen? When did this
acceptance of bestial irresponsibility
happen? We think we are hoping that we
will develop a set of values where our
children will learn how to evaluate
themselves. Then suddenly, this
disappeared. This came in punitive way
which has reached its height under the
present administration. Impunity started
from corruption. Nobody asked anyone
how wealth was acquired. If someone
would just be dashing people hundreds of
thousands, nobody would ask questions.
Don’t we have a system? Can this sustain
the economy of a nation? Why so much
money? Why is this money concentrated
in the hands of a few people? Why not the
majority? There are no amenities. There
are no social services. How come the
ones in government don’t look at it as
service? How come going into governance
means going to make money? And this
again has reached its peak during this
administration. Then there’s this idea of
my own; I want my own to be there. Ni
geria became a country where some of us
have had to re-learn to say well, I come
from the North. I have never talked about
coming from the North. I talked about just
being a Nigerian. But I now talk very
vocally about coming from the North
because I can see I am educated. I can
see what has been done to the North,
structurally at governmental level.
I feel I should come in at this point. From
your analysis of the Nigerian situation so
far, there is a turn around in the attitude
of our leaders towards governance. But
the last time I spoke with you, you
sounded different. Why do you feel
differently?
There is no turn around. You didn’t study
me properly. I have written books.
You supported President Jonathan then,
but now…
That is what I mean, but I have not turned
around.
Now, you are pro another…
I am not for anybody. I am for justice, fair
play and honesty. Try to be honest in
government with the people. Try to serve
the people. Try to develop the people. Try
to be fair before you steal all. This
government is just stealing too much.
This government is too insensitive. This
government doesn’t want anybody to
criticize them. Why did we criticize the
British? They locked us up but we
survived. Why did we criticize the
military? We did so because we wanted a
democratic set up. The so called
democratic set up has come and we
cannot criticize with all your knowledge,
with all your eyes wide open, you are
seeing this kleptomania. You can’t talk
about it. And people are cowards. They
say let’s just give everybody opportunity,
we minorities. Jonathan rode on the back
of people like me from the Middle Belt. We
were preaching minority politics, that the
majority has been cheating us too much.
Now, we have a minority person; at least
he has suffered,so when he goes there,
he would develop Nigeria because the
minorities have kept Nigeria together. We
were the people who joined our hands; we
even fought more to keep Nigeria one. So
here is our son. I was excited. Here is a
university man, a teacher, a lecturer like
Umaru Yar’Adua whom I knew very well.
He came from my school, Keffi and I
knew he would do well. And when God
took him away and I heard that the next
person is a minority person who is also a
university person, I was very excited. I
remember I wrote Jonathan a letter. I
also remember what I told Jonathan
when he came to Makurdi. I was selected
by the governor of the state and by that
time he was not swallowed up by
Jonathan in the game that they are
playing with Nigeria. He told Jonathan
that this is the father of this state. This is
the father that will speak on our behalf
and I did. I do not think that Jonathan has
forgotten what I said. I told him he didn’t
need to come back here, we will vote for
him. He represented hope. He represents
us who have been feeling that after the
British and all these single-handedness of
the military, here is a person who comes
from the small people that were never
empowered. So, we would use power with
restraint, we will restructure Nigeria to be
patriotic. And I said please let us come to
a sovereign national conference, redesign
Nigeria the way you want Nigeria so that
for once Nigerians can be honest to say
we the people of Nigeria give to ourselves
this constitution and we are prepared to
support him and we supported him. And
when there were hiccups, after our son
from the North died, there were a lot of
hiccups about his successor and we
stood firm with Jonathan to take over and
he took over. And when Jonathan took
over, somehow the accusations that the
majority, the Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa people
used to level against the minorities,
Jonathan started showing them.
Jonathan suddenly ended up becoming an
Ijaw man. He was captured by a clique
that was so nationalistic, the ones we
dealt with like Tam David West. They
relegated those people to the background,
brought young men that were militants. I
like militancy. I was a militant too. So we
thought we are going to have progress,
they concentrated on fighting Nigeria
because Nigeria, supposedly, stole their
oil. Which is their oil? This thing got to
Jonathan’s head and he left Nigeria and
joined his group. He became an Ijaw man.
And Ijaws didn’t bring him to power. We
did and we thought he would give us
leadership. And then the second factor
was that Jonathan appeared to be a
Christian and the Christian elements that
were always feeling that no Christian ever
comes from the North or anywhere by
their own choosing to become the
President, said since Umaru was dead
and Jonathan is a Christian, we
Christians will rally around him. I am
talking from the point of view of the
Christians now. I have noticed now that
everyone who felt so strong about
Jonathan don’t feel that way anymore. He
disappointed Christians of Nigeria by his
utterances, his behavior that appears so
insensitive. How can small children be
abducted from their parents and taken
away by criminals. Their fathers are
weeping, their mothers are crying. And
they are weeping up till six months now
and Jonathan was playing politics and
wants to be re-elected. This is the seventh
month since the Chibok girls were
abducted. Our Christian brother Jonathan
has many advisers, including me that
may have resolved this issue. It became a
political thing. That somebody gets into
power, learns how to use the instruments
of power, including the coercive forces of
the nation state of Nigeria to perpetuate
himself in power. Is that not why we
fought the British? Is that not why we
fought the military? Is that not what Jona
than has become now? He must be
President for life because of Ijaw’s oil.
Ijaw’s oil is located in their land, the one
that has been developed. But is Jonathan
aware that most of the oil, the one that
has been found in Nigeria is off-shore in
the territorial waters of Nigeria. I am not
getting into any argument. In International
Law what exists anywhere and
everywhere in the whole world, is that the
extent of territorial waters of a nation and
a nation state, including Nigeria is
determined by the land mass of that
nation. The region that joins two other
regions to form the nation state of Nigeria
is called Northern Nigeria. It has three-
quarters of the land mass of Nigeria.
It’s like you are using the utterances of a
few people to…
Please listen to me. I am not using the
utterances of other people. How has he
reacted to them? I have too much
knowledge and I have too much
information at my disposal. I am not a
kid. I have been active in politics all my
life, except the short spell I taught at the
university, I have never worked for
anybody except myself. And I have just
sat down to do nothing but to write
constitutions for Nigeria and argue for Ni
geria. So, I know what I am talking about.
You are a leader and people dominate
you and you don’t extricate yourself from
them and you allow your utterances to
guide your behavior, you are as guilty as
charged. Let me just give you an example,
because I am not usually vocal, I don’t go
around preaching what is wrong, when
you ask for my reaction to it, I give it.
Let’s take a simple thing like choosing
people to go to the so- called place I
described as a place Jonathan was giving
money to his friends to help him to drum
up support for him to be President of
Nigeria. Who are those so much qualified
than people like me who started writing
constitutions for this country since 1957?
And I served on committees with people
like Ben Nwabueze, Chief Rotimi Williams
and I came through all constitutions, all
conferences in this country that were
written. I was invited to participate in all
of them. And I think I participated in all
except one, including that of Abacha’s
that ended in 1994. There, I was right at
the top of arranging the type of Nigeria we
want, the type of institutions we want and
how we can make these institutions
strong. I have always been there. As a
man with this type of experience, I am still
alive. Jonathan knows me. He is a much
younger brother. In fact, I can call him my
son because at 79 I am Jonathan’s
father. I am not a Nigerian that minces
words. My Nephew whom I adopted is 60.
I am 79. So, Jonathan is my son. Why
would Jonathan be inviting people; he
came to Benue, the governor showed
deference, called me to speak. The Tiv
nation is a major nation in Nigeria. We
are the fourth largest in population and
when there is crisis in this country, the
contributions to the second world war; in
fact, in the first and second world wars,
the Tiv people were there. Our
contribution was critical to the British.
And in the Nigeria civil war, our
contribution was absolutely necessary. It
was a factor in the war turning in favour
of the federalists and I was vocal. I was
with Gowon throughout. I gave all kinds
of advices that were implemented.
Jonathan is old enough to know that. If
Jonathan wants the Tiv people to be
represented in a discussion, the first Tiv
man to teach in a university is alive and is
articulate and has participated in
designing all kinds of things and going
overseas to represent Nigeria, I was not
qualified? Why? The Ijaw people that were
around Jonathan told him I was his
enemy. He came to Benue and they told
him this is the father of our place, he
would talk on our behalf, including the
governor of our state, what I told
Jonathan we would do we did . We, the
Tiv people, when we make a statement,
real Tiv people, when we make a
commitment, we stay there and we put
our blood to the commitment. We have
stayed with Jonathan and Jonathan
decided that in the type of conference he
wanted, Paul Unongo was not qualified.
And yet this conference was going to talk
about how we could organise Nigeria to
include Tiv people and I am the leader of
the Tiv people. Can you imagine Awolowo
being barred from participating in
discussing how you can make Nigeria
peaceful? That’s what Jonathan did.
That’s number one.
But sir…
No,no, no. I must end this one. Number
two. When Jonathan selected the people
to advise him, Jonathan selected
somebody called Col. Nyam, …I studied
and know the man they call Col. Nyam.
He was the leader of the coup that was to
oust Ibrahim Babangida. I knew this
because I, a civilian, was picked as the
leader of this type of coup because one
Tiv person, one little Tiv young man,
called Major Gideon Orkar announced the
coup. So, it must be Paul Unongo that
influenced him. I was incarcerated for
almost seven months and I knew and
studied the coup. After anger, I decided
that I will study the theology of the coup,
why it came about and why people like
me were arrested. It was a coup of
minorities. Yes, but minorities of the
south. And Orkar’s knowledge of the
coup…I think I am qualified to say so
because I suffered a lot…I don’t believe it
was more than 30 hours before the
execution of the coup. And I swore that I
will reveal the nature of the coup because
I am trained to serve my country and the
government of my country and I will
advise them despite my incarceration. So,
I studied the kids that were wasted and I
talked to all of them and then transferred
all their frustrations in my evidence in
chief. I told them if you want to kill me,
these are the things that were disturbing
these young men that did this coup. This
is the line of the coup, the leadership and
so on. I know because I am there with
them. I have asked them questions. Now,
I discovered that the leader was not even
Mukoro. It was Col. Nyam. This coup, the
first thing they did, the first speech that
was written that Col. Nyam was going to
deliver excised about seven states from
Northern Nigeria or thereabout and threw
them out of Nigeria and say we don’t
want them. They said after some years,
may be these people if they come and
beg us, then we can re-admit them into
Nigeria. When I saw Nyam who ran
away and abandoned these young men,
his role was to make the broadcast. When
they got to the venue of the broadcast,
Radio Nigeria, Col. Nyam was not there.
He had left. He ran away. This was to be
their leader. He ran away. Mukoro ran
away after entering Dodan Barracks. And
they came and caught us innocent people
that didn’t know anything about the coup
and one young man, Ogboru’s brother
was tortured. And they suffered a lot. So, I
felt if Jonathan was sincere about this
country, would he take for an adviser, a
person who did a coup to expunge almost
half of the population of the country away
from Nigeria? He doesn’t want to see
these people in Nigeria. And I didn’t keep
quiet. I went there to tell Jonathan that I
don’t believe in this thing that you are
doing. I don’t believe that you are sincere.
I know you want to have political gain to
prepare yourself for an election, but the
senseless dash called allowance, how can
you give these people N4 million?. It was
bribery to corrupt them to write what he
wanted, do what he wanted. And this is
happening in Nigeria where half of the
population can hardly make N40,000 a
year. And you gave people this amount
for four or five months and you pay them
N4 million every month? Look at the
number. There is so much that went
wrong. When I saw all these, I said this
man cannot be a Christian. This man
cannot represent the suffering people in
the creeks. This man is just using us the
minorities for a big political plan. What is
he looking for? Why N4 million? Col.
Nyam who sought to break up Nigeria and
some of us went and suffered for him
while he ran away,. he brought him and
he didn’t care. And then Nyam went and
started fighting Oshiomhole, one of the
progressive governors form the labour
movement. He abused him and wanted to
engage him in physical combat to the
embarrassment of the committee that was
set up by Jonathan. So they removed
Nyam from the committee. You know
what? When Jonathan wanted to appoint
a larger team, Jonathan brought Nyam
again and put him so as to pay him N4
million a month. He had the indecency to
stretch his hands and collect the money of
Nigeria he wanted to break up.
Is it a planned issue? And look at this
insecurity. Is this deliberate? Could your
not being appointed a member of the
National Conference be the reason why
you turned against President Jonathan
because you are sounding bitter over the
issue? The inference might as well be,
rightly or wrongly, that you are now anti-
Jonathan because you were not
appointed a National Conference mem
ber. Right?
How many people appointed me into posi
tions? If I was somebody looking for
positions in Nigeria, don’t you think I am
capable of being a Minister? Couldn’t I
have played the same game you
Nigerians play to make money? You think
that I am so down that I would go and
kowtow before people in authority and
say look, oga this one I know I am small I
will do it for you so give me money? I
think you are trivialising the issues I have
raised. I am saying a leader of Nigeria
should not, publicly, you can have private
relationship with these people if you
admire them, but to the public, Nigeria’s
leader cannot go and shore up an
inconsequential person trying to break up
Nigeria and in the assignment you gave
to him he showed himself not suitable, if
not incompetent. He was not suitable. His
colleagues kicked him out of the
committee you set up. They said they
cannot work with this kind of person. Then
when you were selecting people to come,
to show how you felt about that person
that you believed in him, you went out of
your way and brought him back and
announced him as a member of these
people that you dashed N4 million. For
what?
