Rev. Musa Asake is the General-Secretary of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN). Since he assumed office some years ago, he has always spoken up against religious extremism in Northern Nigeria, as well as the plight of Christians in the region. For the CAN scribe, the recent brouhaha surrounding the use of a private jet belonging to the President of CAN, Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor for an alleged arms deal was a set-up masterminded by the some elements within the Nigerian security forces.
In this interview with
FRED ITUA, Asake speaks on the growing influence of
Boko Haram in the North, refusal by key Muslim leaders to speak up, why it is imperative to sack the National Security Adviser (NSA), Col. Mohammed Sambo Dasuki and Minister of Defence, General Aliyu Gusau, among other issues. Excerpts:
CAN has been under severe attack from pastors and other senior clergymen over the $9.3 million involving Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor’s private jet. The integrity of CAN has equally been called to question of late…? What I can say here is that, when someone is talking, you look at the person talking. If you are able to know who is talking, then you can answer the individual. There are times also, if you begin to respond to what some people are saying, you will be promoting them. There are some people who are nothing in the society, but they want to be known. I do not want to waste time on Pastor Chris Okotie. As a pastor, I am not judging. But I must say that Okotie is not qualified to say what he said. I want to leave that. I do not think he has any moral right as a pastor to say what he said. I do not know whether he is a member of CAN. Since I have been in this office, I have never seen his name or even heard of his name. He has not attended any of our meetings here. So, he cannot and should not speak for the Christian community. There are many things himself as a Christian leader should not say.
As for Cardinal Okogie, I respect
baba. I have never met him in person. But I was shocked to hear what he said. He has led CAN and during his time, Nigeria was taken to membership of Organisation of Islamic Countries (OIC). He did not say anything. Christians are suffering what they are suffering because Okogie kept quiet. CAN, led by Ayo Oritsejafor, has been outspoken, challenging the government. He has been speaking on behalf of Christians, especially those in the North. Northern Christians do not have a voice under any government in the region. But this time, they have somebody who is speaking in their defence. Somebody like Okogie should cover his face in shame. They should not be speaking. Now that they have said what they said, the Federal Government has spoken out. They have admitted that the money was their own. Now, what can they say again? So, me, I do not want to say anything bad about them. I leave them to their conscience and to their God. If somebody paid them to say what they said, judgment day is coming. That is all I can say.
Some Christian leaders and Nigerians have alleged that there was a conspiracy regarding the use of Pastor Oritsejafor’s private jet in South Africa. Many Nigerians were worried that the office of the National Security Adviser (NSA) did not come out to say anything about its role. Do you equally suspect there was a conspiracy? I believe that and I believe that is what happened. There are hundreds of private jets in this country. The presidency has private jets. Now, who told them that Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor has leased his jet? That jet was leased to a company. That was the jet they used in carrying that money. When they did that, who told the South African government? I think the office of the NSA needs to explain. I still hold strongly that the NSA is mischievous. He needs to come out. That is why I am calling for their dismissal. He should resign or dismissed by the Federal Government. He wanted to tarnish the image of the president of CAN and that of Christians in general. Let me say one thing. The God that we serve is alive. When you set out to destroy someone, you will destroy yourself. They have not succeeded in destroying the image of CAN president or Christians. They should try another method. They will not succeed.
Many Nigerians believe that the current leadership of CAN appears to maintain a close relationship with the government in power. Don’t you think this might be misconstrued and that some level of distance should be maintained? You see, it hurts when I hear or read something like that. What is CAN? It is a Christian body. CAN was started to checkmate government and to fight the suppression of Christians in Nigeria. Now, do you expect the CAN president to checkmate the pastors? Are they government? When they say Oritsejafor is very close to the government, I do not understand. Please, that is our Christian leader. The Muslims have their own leader and that is the Sultan of Sokoto. Does he not go to the Villa or talk to the president? Why are they not talking about the Sultan? They are talking about CAN president. Let us get all the telephone companies in Nigeria bring out what both leaders have been saying. Let us display that of the CAN president and that of the Sultan. Let us see who goes there most. We Christians, when they attack our leaders, we keep quiet. We get some nominal Christians also joining the group. Let me tell you. The Sultan is closer to the government than the CAN president. Let them check the records.
You have repeatedly kicked against some Muslim leaders who frequently abuse CAN leaders. It appears that abuse has become a normal thing. Why has CAN not taken a firm stand about that? You see, Christianity teaches living in peace with one another. We read from our Bible where it says vengeance is of the Lord. We have been taught not to retaliate. We are human beings and we are being pushed to the wall. The way some Muslims attack Christians and Christian leaders is alarming. The way they attack CAN president is bad. We are saying enough is enough. Let me tell you why they are doing that. We have never had a leader in CAN that has spoken so loud and clear on behalf of Christians in this country like this current one is doing. As I have said in other places, Oritsejafor is not from the North. I am from the North. I know what I suffer in the North. Oritsejafor does not have a church in the North. But look at how he is spending his resources and speaking out in defence of Christians from the North. He is not only speaking out, he is spending his resources for
Boko Haram victims. He is spending his money for those who cannot help themselves in the North. Now, the northern leaders, the so-called elders in the North, northern politicians and the Sultan who is the head of the Muslims in Nigeria have not done what Oritsejafor has done for Christians in the region. You are a journalist. Help me and take me down memory lane to show me where Sultan has visited these victims of
Boko Haram to sympathise. Or tell me where he has sent in materials to help the victims. Or maybe where he has spoken against
Boko Haram. I want you to help me. This is where I am confused. I am this confused because I am a northerner. I know the marginalisation we as Christians in this part of the country suffer. Go to Kano, Sokoto and Katsina. All the Christians, who are indigenes of those states, are considered third or fourth class citizens. Have you heard the Sultan speak on their behalf? Have you heard anybody speak on their behalf? When the Muslims come together, they start saying stupid things like Muslims in the South are not treated well. You cannot use a fraction of what is happening in the South to compare with what is happening in the North. Please, you are a journalist and you should be able to make this very clear that this attack on CAN president is because he is speaking on behalf of northern Christians that are voiceless. I want to assure the whole world now that any attack on the CAN president or the Christians will be returned fire for fire. I am not kidding.
There is a report that Boko Haram
now controls more than the size of three states in the North. You are also aware that some major towns in the north are currently under the occupation of Boko Haram
terrorists. Do you harbour any fear that if these terrorists are not stopped, they might overrun the entire North? They have already run over the North. That is why we are calling with a loud voice that President Jonathan should sack the Minister of Defence and his NSA. They are doing nothing. They are the people that have allowed this thing to happen. Like Gusau, the Defence Minister, Jonathan brought him back. When the late Andrew Azazi was in office, he was fired because the Muslims mounted pressure on Jonathan that he should be fired. They brought in a Muslim, Dasuki. Then they brought in Gusau who had been in this office in the past. He even resigned and contested for the presidency. I cannot understand the rationale for bringing him back. What we were told at that time was that they were going to put an end to
Boko Haram. Ever since Gusau came back and met with Dasuki of which they are both in laws, terrorism has been bad. What is happening in Adamawa, Yobe and Borno is the plan of Dasuki and Gusau. If they are not sacked, the presidency will live to regret it. These people are not helping this country. Let us not pretend or play over it. Let me tell you. It will get to a point where everybody will have to start defending himself. The Christians are being killed everyday in the North. If you go to Yola now, the streets are occupied with Christians that have been dismissed from their places of living. They are not homeless because of some blood suckers called Muslims in the name of
Boko Haram. Muslims will tell me that these are not real Muslims. Who are real Muslims? They are fighting the cause of Muslims. They have not changed their agenda. Anybody trying to tell me that they are not real Muslims should tell me if they are Christians. Let the real Muslims stop them. If we have anybody parading himself as a Christian and then doing things like this, we will have to stop him. If we do not stop him, it means we believe in what he is doing.
You just raised a point that Christians might have to start defending themselves. When are we going to get to that point? Well, in Christianity, we fear God. Even when our youths get up to retaliate, we say no to them. But if the government continues to keep quiet and leave the Minister of Defence and NSA who are aiding
Boko Haram, then we will start protecting ourselves.
President Goodluck Jonathan has been in power for more than five years. Do you think he has done enough in his fight to demolish Boko Haram
? Under his leadership, Boko Haram
has become very strong? The president, as a person, is working very hard. He is very concerned. He wants to bring this mess to an end. But those surrounding him are not with him. Let me make it very clear. The president sees himself as president of Nigeria. That is why he is doing what he is doing. But the Muslims do not respect him. They do not accept him. They believe that unless a Muslim becomes president, Nigeria will never be in peace. Let me repeat what I have said before. Check the results of the elections in 2011. The Muslims in the North did not vote for President Jonathan. They do not believe in him. Those that even surround the president do not believe in him. Those in his cabinet will never get any votes for him. Let me make it very clear. They did not vote for him in 2011. They will not vote for him in 2015. Many people surrounding Jonathan are hypocrites. When they go back home, they reduce themselves to nothing, but Islam. It is very clear. Quote me anywhere.
After the 2011 presidential elections, we witnessed the crisis that followed in the north and how Christians were killed. Sheik Gumi has openly declared that if Buhari loses in 2015, there will be crisis. Do you suspect a repeat of what happened in 2011 if Buhari secures APC ticket and he does not win eventually? That is where the Federal Government always fails us. When Buhari came out, all he
was preaching was hate. When he did not win, it was his own boys that started burning churches. Nobody said anything to them. When Sheik Lemu panel came up, was Buhari not indicted? Churches that were burnt and people that were killed, did they compensate their families? What happened? They returned, gave the money meant for compensation to governors who are Muslims. Christians were cheated. If Buhari runs, to me, is not news. Right now, you can see the kind of people that are his supporters. See the kind of people that are following. The other day, I was watching the television and I saw his followers trying to strangle people’s necks. That is even happening among his followers. What if he loses? To the Islamic cleric that made that statement, my question to him is this. Can’t he get the attention of Buhari? Is it only Buhari that we have in this country that if he does not rule, Nigeria will cease to exist? We need to save lives. I want people to know that after this life, there is judgment of God. Whatever one does in the secret, before God, it will be made known. The political situation in Nigeria has been put under religious dimension. If you have 100 people in a room and then 80 of them are Christians, while the other 20 are Muslims, they will want to ensure that the leadership of that group must be a Muslim. They believe that they were born to rule. We have endured this thing for too long. I want to challenge our Christian leaders and pastors of mega churches in this country that are keeping quiet, thinking that they are safe, I want to remind them of the book of Esther, Chapter 4. When people were planning to annihilate the Jewish race, Esther sent a word to Modecai that her people were about to perish. He told her to speak to the king on their behalf. She sent a word back, complaining about the bureaucracy. He reminded her that the salvation of the Jewish rested solely with her. Esther went to the king and the Jews were saved.
During Adolf Hitler’s era, there was a pastor by the name, Pastor Martin Niemöller. He was a supporter of Hitler. He did not want to come out to condemn what Hitler was doing. He was thinking he was in a safe situation. Before he died, he left these words, “First, they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.” My brother, I want our leaders in Nigeria to take this message very strongly. Just because you are in a protective area where nothing will happen to you does not mean you are safe. The words of Pastor Niemöller will soon come to pass in Nigeria. It will come to a point when whether you are a Muslim or a Christian,
Boko Haram will get to you. We have seen where Muslims who stood up against their preaching were killed. When they started, it was not like that. Those people in the North, who are not speaking right now, will be left alone one day and they will have no place to run too, we are in a war and this war is affecting everybody. I realise that the leadership of Muslims in the North are afraid of
Boko Haram. Many Muslims are sympathetic to
Boko Haram. They sit back and watch people being killed.
I went for a burial in southern Kaduna where 170 people were killed and put in one grave. Where are our Muslim leaders in the North? How many of them go around to visit these people? I visited a primary school where kids were roaming around, naked. Their parents have been killed. Nobody is speaking. Nigeria is in a sorry state and may God help us all.
Two years ago, the President of CAN, Pastor Oritsejafor told the whole world that Boko Haram would be taken to the International Criminal Court (ICC). Has that idea been jettisoned? We intend to follow through. But let me ask you. Who are these
Boko Haram members? Look at the Army and the entire security circle. The common person there is risking his life. Now, we have saboteurs among our own security people. What is being done to them? Not even once has anybody been convicted. Are we saying that we do not know the people behind them? We are still on that case. Just give us time. Very soon, you will be hearing from us.
It’s been over 200 days since Chibok schoolgirls were abducted by Boko Haram. While politicians are busy seeking re-election, CAN has equally be silent. Many of these kidnapped girls are Christians. Why the silence from CAN? It’s not so much a silence. If it were under our control, those girls who would not have spent a day there. It takes me back to the Minister of Defence and the NSA. The entire security lies with them. If those girls were Muslims, I guarantee you that they would not have spent more than two days. Now, the thing has been politicised. But God has the final say. We are speaking. We have resorted to prayers and trusting God that at His appointed time, these girls will come out with a testimony. We are not quiet.
Even with the recent statement credited to the leader of Boko Haram that the girls have been converted to Islam and married out? I do not think that is true. It is a propaganda. I have also discovered that when
Boko Haram suffers serious casualties from our security agents, they go to the social media, telling the whole world that they won. Even journalists are not helping matters at all. If they kill two people, journalists write that they kill 30 people. When our security forces defeat them, journalists do not report it with the same zeal. I want to challenge journalists in this country to be fair to us. You journalists are promoting those bloodsuckers. Something is wrong with the chain of order in our security circles. If we change the NSA and the Minister of Defence, I guarantee you that we will see a change.
Are you suggesting that the NSA and the Minister of Defence be replaced with Christians? No. There are good Muslims. There are God-fearing Muslims. I am talking about individuals that are doing nothing. I am not talking about religion. There are God-fearing Muslims that will do that which is required to be done if you put them there. You can put a Christian there and he will also mess up. I am talking about Nigeria. Let us look for credible Nigerians to man those positions.
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